It Ain't Easy Eating Green

A VEGAN ODYSSEY

Saturday, March 04, 2006

Considering a Car (That is as Environmentally Friendly as Possible, of course! HELP!!)

As I mentioned in one of my earlier posts, my parents don't feel as strongly about the environment as I do. So, for my eighteenth birthday a few years back, my Dad thought he'd surprise me with a 1995 BMW. And I was surprised, all right -- surprised he was so ignorant of my love for Mother Earth that he'd buy me such a gas-guzzling, smog-emitting piece of shit.

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But I suppose his heart was in the right place... I could tell he was reaching out for my love. Still, I couldn't justify actually driving that thing, so after a few pity laps around the block with Dad waving from the front porch, I parked that motherfucker in the garage, where it has stayed ever since.

My mom gave me a few "You know your father means well" talks the summer I got that car, in the hopes I'd take it out for a spin, and smooth things out with Dad. But I wouldn't bite. How could I justify the other aspects of my lifestyle if I was bombing around the streets in that thing?

So I rode my bicycle whenever possible, and have ever since. When extreme winter weather keeps me from taking the bike out, public transportation is there, and it takes me pretty much everywhere I need to go.

But lately, with having to travel back and forth from school and work so often, public transit just hasn't been cutting it. I love the fact that riding the bus doesn't pollute as much, but I've been showing up late for both work and school a lot because of buses that are running off schedule, due to poor road conditions.

So I've decided that I'm going to start driving. Don't worry, I'm not going to be driving the BMW. I'm selling that thing. (In fact, I think I may have already lined up a buyer from school.) I asked my Dad about a week ago how he would feel about me getting rid of it. He pretended like he was still annoyed over my initial rejection of that car four years ago by saying, "Are you going to trade it in for some magic beans or something?"

The fucking asshole.

He said it in a half-joking sort of way, but it really ticked me off, and reminded me that I don't care what he thinks, anyway.

So the bottom line is, the BMW is going, and I'll be getting a new vehicle. I'm pretty excited. Whatever money I get from the old car will go towards the new one. Helping things out a lot will be some inheritance money my Grandpa left me.

I don't know much about cars, but I think I've narrowed it down to a few finalists. Pictured in order below are the now famous Smart Car, Toyota Prius and Honda Civic Hybrid. Now, I haven't made up my mind on what car I'm going to get, so I'm just brainstorming here. I'd appreciate any advice you people can give me!

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- Preston

47 Comments:

At 7:17 PM, Blogger Mandy said...

Hi Preston,

I think the Smart Cars are cute. But I'm a girl so that probably doesn't help much. ;) I also think they might be inconvenient due to the lack of storage space in the car. I also think (and correct me if I'm wrong) that the Smart Cars only have room for a driver plus one passenger? That may or may not be inconvenient for you.

My next choice would be the Toyota, but I am partial to Toyotas as I am fairly attached to my 'blue meanie' ('94 Camry that I fill up about once a month or less - would be even less than that if decent public transit actually existed here!). As soon as I get a real job I will be trading in that car for a hybrid.

Whatever you decide, kudos to you for making such a good decision for the environment. Oh, have you considered a Segway? They're kinda goofy/cool. Probably not very good for the winter though.

Anyway, thanks for the nice comment you left on my blog. Keep writing - good stuff!

 
At 7:41 PM, Blogger Preston said...

Hey Mandy!

Always nice to have you stop by!

I agree with you about the Smart Car. It's different looking, but so what, right? If it's better for the environment, it doesn't matter what it looks like.

I've never tried a Segway, but they look fun. Do you have one?

 
At 8:04 PM, Blogger Erin said...

Have you considered one that runs on biodiesel or compressed natural gas? There's a seller in Phoenix who converts "regular" cars to CNG. Any car that can run on diesel can run on biodiesel... or vegetable oil, though that's messier. Good luck with the search!

 
At 8:08 PM, Blogger Preston said...

I'll have to consider that, Erin. Thanks!

By the way, how come your profile doesn't list a blog? I'd like to read more of your thoughts and opinions.

- Preston

 
At 7:37 AM, Blogger Maddy said...

I love this cheery site!
Check out my friend's site-
she is a vegan cookbook author-
http://vivelevegan.blogspot.com

Smiles!!!!!!!!!

 
At 3:50 PM, Blogger sirbarrett said...

Very nice blog. I found it through Gina's. I admire your integrity for saving the planet. The ice caps are starting to melt like crazy!!!

At first I thought Smart Cars were ugly. I just wasn't used to them yet. I was used to the long aerodynamic bullshit that's advertised over and over to death. Now I think they're unique and of course cute. You should go for car with intelligence man. I bet they're great for parallele parking too!!

 
At 6:08 PM, Blogger Preston said...

Thanks for stopping by, Sirbarrett. Hope you do so again.

I agree with you about the Smart Cars. I mean, take any past decade's automotive designs and then jump ahead a decade to the next - usually they were vastly different. People in the 60s would have scoffed if they saw a car from the 70s, and so on.

Hindsight is everything... but foresight? Well, I don't think I need to tell you that mankind hasn't filled that prescription yet.

We are quick to point out what we've done wrong, yet we rush heedlessly forward, dropping apology notes along the way. It's sickening.

The Smart Car may be my car... who knows. I haven't quite decided yet. But I love its look, that's for sure. Like us, it's different, but sooner or later, it's going to take the world by storm.

Peace.

-Preston

 
At 10:49 PM, Blogger Amelopsis said...

Smart Cars run on diesel - extremely efficient but nothing hybrid about it. Definitely only seats two with enough room for a small suitcase in the hatch. Service is costly.(mercedes) Plus, you'll be in a long line of persons who've already made a deposit and are waiting months to receive delivery of the car. Toyota last I checked is not as efficient at charging its own battery through the braking process as is the Prius.
If you go to each of the manufacturers sites you'll easily be able to determine the various efficiency ratings.

 
At 6:39 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Your passion is admirable, and I share a lot of the sentiments you advance. Regrettably though, I think you're a joke.

You're doing little more than whining about anything you can think of. You're accomplishing nothing by hating your dad for buying you a BMW, being a vegan, and making blanket statements about how we're moving heedlessly forward...

I understand you don't like the state of affairs in the world today; neither do I. But stop running your overprivileged, hate-everything, please-listen-to-how-deep-I-think-I-am mouth... rather than making yourself a laughing stock, why don't you play the game and put yourself into a position to do something about one of these issues that animates you so much? Stop waxing poetic and thinking it's accomplishing something. It's not.

As a side note, veganism is pointless. The cow will still be dead after you don't eat it, and you'll still have the incisors that evolved for the purpose of eating meat. You're not deep and compassionate for not eating things that your body is designed to eat; you're foolish.

 
At 8:43 AM, Blogger Preston said...

Whatever, man.

In your limited understanding of my Vegan cause, I'm not "not eating" animals fast enough to keep up with the people who are eating them.

What you fail to understand is that when Vegans refuse to eat animal products, they aren't necessarily trying to change things with their diets, but to make their cause known.

You may think I'm "whining" in my posts here, but a Vegan's goal is to use as many avenues as he or she can to end the suffering of animals. So I will continue to "whine" as I see fit.

And don't worry, I plan to get even more involved than I am now, and am planning several trips to the front lines, you dumb, meat-eating cavemen!

-Preston

 
At 8:58 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Dumb, meat-eating cavemen" Well-played old bean, and only two short hours to come up with it to boot!

There are of course those who will abandon reasoned argument in favor of unprincipled name calling... they're usually found on elementary school playgrounds, and they usually grow out of it.

I dedicate my next steak to hoping that someday your intellect will catch up to the strength of your opinions. Maybe then you'll sound a little bit less like a cry baby and a little more like what you're trying so desperately to sound like now.

 
At 9:28 AM, Blogger Erin said...

Anonymous, maybe you're reacting so violently to this blog and to veganism because you're troubled by the fact that you eat animals. If mad cow disease doesn't get you first, colon cancer and heart disease will. If you're upset that Preston's "whining" about veganism, maybe you should consider the fact that *you're* whining about "whining." At least get your own blog and give us some whining in the first degree. Go eat your steak in peace--you're welcome to it.

 
At 10:47 AM, Blogger Maddy said...

Actually, I really love the
green one - it's my favorite
color and they look like happy
little toys - although - if you
are a camper - like me - the lack
of space could be a huge
issue...

Smiles!

 
At 11:10 AM, Anonymous LoveThaPlantz said...

You meat eaters make me sick! What did these animals ever do to you?! I just want to cry every time I'm at the grocery store and see these damn imperialists buying all the dead animals.

To hell with all these killers; I'm with you, Preston. How would they like it if someone came and just ate them?

 
At 4:10 PM, Blogger Preston said...

Ha. It didn't actually take me two hours to deliver that comment. I woke up this morning, checked my blog for comments and then responded immediately.

You, on the other hand, probably stayed up all night typing it up.

 
At 4:14 PM, Blogger Wardo said...

I love animals. I love EATING them.

And - to take a page from the vegan cookbook - there is nothing like fresh meat that you killed yourself (akin to growing vegetables) frying in the pan, the aroma so maddeningly good that you want to scoop out the hot chunks with your fingers.

The best meat I ever had was freshly-shot pheasant - I gunned it down at 20 yards with my 12 gauge - and it was cleaned, slapped with an egg-and-cornflake batter and sizzling in the pan shy of 10 minutes:

Dad: (forking delicious fried pheasant into his mouth) This is the life, isn't it, son?

Me: It sure is, dad. Pass me another beer! *burp*

Dad: Argus, this wonderful meal is thanks to you, and your incredible ability to kill animals for the table. Well done, sir. And your idea to use honey as a dipping-sauce - well, you must have inherited your intelligence from your old man!

Me: Never mind that, now. I can't wait for dessert - roast!

Dad: You prankster!

Hey Preston - I read that 59% of people who bought SMART cars are actually homosexual. Are you trying to tell us something? HAW HAW HAW!

 
At 10:27 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm seeing here that your problem is that you don't respect the others. Because you don't eat cow doesn't mean that the others are the most ugly ppl on earth.

 
At 11:51 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I are fifteen pounds of turducken last night after my Meat Club meeting. A couple hours later, I passed out from the massive strain on my ass. While I was unconscious I had a dream... in that dream Karl Marx spoke to me in a vision. He told me about the natural order of things. It turns out modern science is wrong; the economic theory of socialism holds that eating meat defies the natural order of things. Only when animals stop eating animals will the utopia unfold.

I shall never again eat meat. Please, think of the kittens.

 
At 2:03 PM, Blogger Preston said...

You people can stop with the sarcasm.

I do care for others. It's just difficult when I see them butchering and devouring innocent animals, that's all.

 
At 1:20 AM, Blogger Mateo said...

The anti-vegans are fools.

Even more than the vegans are.

And yes, the vegans are, too.

Preston, anonymous is trying to be an asshole, but he has a point. Your issues with your father are stronger than your issues with animal abuse.

The true solution is to stick it out. Make time for the bus when snow falls. Joyfully ride your bicycle when it doesn't. The oil barrons win when you put rubber to the road, no matter what kind of engine is turning it. But be practical. Drive your bmw when somebody needs a ride.
Now is the time to be truly brave. Don't be another fool consumer that buys the eggs to save the chicken. Vote with your dollars, not with your symbols.

 
At 9:37 AM, Anonymous Meatlover Skillet said...

This is entertaining stuff. You remind me of that super paranoid computer geek, Buckley from the movie Dead Man On Campus, who thinks that Bill Gates is out to get him.

Good luck not dying in your "smart" car if you ever have to drive on the freeway.

Good day to you.

"Not eating meat is a decision; eating meat is an instinct" - Denis Leary

 
At 8:21 PM, Blogger xsparklerx said...

Wow, your blog's a hot topic these days lol.
I love omnis who don't understand the basic concept of supply and demand. Less demand equals less supply equals less cows getting killed in the first place... duhh

I do think you're acting the tiniest bit spoiled here, I mean your dad got you a BMW... He tried at least. I'm sure my parents would never buy me a car, let alone a BMW, and certainly wouldn't let me keep it if I didn't use it and and acted as unappreciative as you did. Like man, you're 22... and you kinda sound like an annoying teen complaining about parents.

I really respect your commitment to causes you believe in, but if you were a bit less negative it would make all of us look better.

 
At 9:33 PM, Blogger Preston said...

I'm not being moody; and you'd understand that if I had mentioned just how rich my parents are. To my Dad, a BMW is freakin' Tonka toy, which is why I consider his giving it to me an insult. He could have given me something far less harmful to the environment.

He could probably arrange to have freakin' Paul McCartney chauffer me around in a solar-powered limo if he wanted. Okay, that's probably a stretch (get it? "stretch"?), but you know what I mean.

 
At 8:25 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"He could probably arrange to have freakin' Paul McCartney chauffer me around in a solar-powered limo if he wanted. Okay, that's probably a stretch (get it? "stretch"?), but you know what I mean."

You make me sick. You rattle on and on about how enlightened you are, yet you can make such despicably ignorant statements as this. I hope you don't honestly expect people to feel sorry for you for the "slight" of being given a BMW? Many people work very hard to EARN the money to buy a BMW, and you feel insulted for being given one. I thought you were a fool when I read your other garbage posts, but now I'm truly convinced that you don't have the first fucking clue of what you're talking about.

You're a shithead little bourgeois child that hates everything. Why? Because you've got nothing else to do. It's ignorant ass holes like you that destroy the credibility of the causes you pretend to stand for.

 
At 11:04 AM, Blogger Preston said...

You anonymous people are such cowards. How about using a blogger identity, you stupid fucks?

What's so difficult to understand here? My father, who is quite wealthy, gave me a vehicle he knew I wouldn't be happy with because of my Vegan lifestyle. It's akin to giving a platter of pork as a housewarming gift to your Muslim neighbours, or a box of Morning-After Pills to the teenage daughter of your devoutly Christian neighbors.

I'm not being ignorant, bitchy or spoiled by calling attention to this - I'm simply doing something about it.

I've sold the BMW and I'm going to be putting the money towards a car that is more environmentally friendly.

That is all.

- Preston out.

 
At 12:04 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Maybe he wanted you to have a nice car. Maybe all this pettiness is in your head.

If anyone is a coward, it's you. You have everything, do nothing about anything, and hide behind a spurious ideology that you yourself don't seem to understand and use it as an excuse for your apathy.

Just keep smoking and collect your dad's money and quit wasting everyone's time.

 
At 7:01 PM, Blogger Wardo said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
At 7:09 PM, Blogger Wardo said...

Hey, Xsparkle,

You love "omnis" who don't understand supply and demand, huh?

Well, you know what I love? I love santimonious cunts like you who continually put their feet in their mouths for my amusement. Your self-absorbed, ridiculous vegan lifestyle is a living, breathing testimonial to misguided, decadent Western stupidity in itself, but I'll focus on what you said instead:

"lol I love omnis who don't understand the basic concept of supply and demand. Less demand equals less supply equals less cows getting killed in the first place... duhh"

Gee, what's an omni? lol duhh, don't bother, I know. Anyway, I'll apply my economics degree to lay things out, here. I'll type slowly so you understand the "basic concept."

No Sparkle, less demand actually results in MORE supply. But WHY, you're about to say? Shut up. The market abhors a vacuum, just like nature. A lack of one thing results in an excess of another. It's the fundamental rule of economics.

So, if there is less demand for any product, inventories build up (the supply - you still with me? Need some B12 yet?). Therefore, supply has GROWN in the face of slacking demand.

So let's say in your mean old cow example, we've got farmers with tons of stupid, cud-chewing beasts (like you I guess, huh? Imagine that! lol duhh) that for some reason in Bizarro Land, nobody wants to eat. Assuming this impossible scenario would occur, farmers would be forced to lower the prices of their suddenly overstocked beef cattle (kind of like when cauliflower is on sale for .59 a head in the summer - everybody and their uncle has a cauliflower crop for market, get it?) to move their product. And hey, what happens when there's a sale on cauliflower? That means you get a hippie stampede to the produce department! "Moonbean, cauliflower is on sale! Broccoli, too! Oooh, ooh, bring the Smart Car around front, we need to stock up!"

...causing demand to increase back up again. Then, in theory, we arrive at an end state called, "equilibrium", basically where supply and demand are perfectly balanced.

Hope that helps, lol duhh!

 
At 6:37 AM, Blogger Mandy said...

Argus, is that not very short sighted? That implies that the demand is down because people are not buying it due to price. If people refuse to buy a product for other reasons, because they, oh say, have a conscience.. then even if the price goes down they will not be buying that product. I don't care how cheap beef is on sale for, I will never buy it.

Being realistic, I know that there will always be *some* demand for beef, but if more people decide to never buy meat (for whatever reason), the demand over time will decrease, as will supply.

At any rate, I find it amusing that you are so insecure about your dietary habits that you must come here and attack someone repeatedly for expressing their own beliefs. You don't have to justify your meat-eating to us. It seems like you need to justify it to yourself.

 
At 10:06 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

It's so much easier to just say that people who eat meat are insecure about their eating habits? Seriously... most people have much more, I dunno... worthwhile, things to think about besides the emotional impact of their eating habits.

We normal eaters (It's not inaccurate to say that, given that we're designed for meat, and you self-absorbed zealots have made the aberrant choice to refrain from meat) simply eat what we like, and that's just wonderful; we don't feel bad about it, and we're not insecure about it.

Further, I for one see no need to attack people for their beliefs. But (and listen closely here), there's a big difference between expressing your beliefs and attacking everyone else's intellect all the while claiming your own to be so vastly superior because you "understand" what the stupid masses simply overlooks. That's naivete at its worst, and that's what our little whipping boy Preston evinces in every one of his tear-jerking rants. It's not veganism that I despise, it's the superiority complex that often (e.g. the owner of this blog) accompanies it.

Get over yourselves. If you want to make your point with veganism, be my guest. But don't sit there and think you're so superior and more intellectual for it. It's when you start acting like Preston that you, and your cause, starts looking like a joke.

 
At 3:19 AM, Blogger Prmod Bafna said...

Its really lovely that you think about the eco-friendliness of getting around.. I'd rather you go for the civic hybrid since thats more practical.. Cheers!

 
At 9:47 AM, Blogger Mandy said...

Dally,

I *do* understand the argument. Currently there is no market for dog meat, hence there is no (little?) production here in North America. There aren't farmers out there breeding massive numbers of dogs in an attempt to get prices down so people will buy it. Why? Because people are opposed to eating dog meat.

Over the last ten years that I've been vegetarian, I've noticed that a lot more people are eating less meat and/or becoming vegetarian. If this trend were to continue to the point where, let's say as many as a third of the population was eating little or no beef, that would have an effect on demand. I doubt that the meat eaters could increase their consumption so much as to make up for that loss of demand, without dropping like flies from heart attacks.

On the short term, yes there would be an increased supply in an attempt to bring prices down - but if people aren't willing to buy it, they won't, and eventually the supply would decrease.

I'm not saying everyone who eats meat is insecure about the diet. But I'm always amused at just how hostile and defensive people get around vegetarians. They claim all the reasons why you shouldn't be vegetarian, why you need meat, etc etc etc. It's obviously just an attempt at justifying their own actions.

And yes, many vegetarians are also very vocal about their diets. It's because we see a horrible wrong being done and we can't in good conscious sit back and let it continue. People who fight for humane treatment of cats and dogs are praised highly: those of us who care just as much for cows and pigs and chickens are seen as nut cases. Why? It's society, it's culture. It's acceptable to abuse farm animals but not pets. Why?

It's your right to support whatever you like with your money. But do you know what you are supporting? Would you be ok if dogs or cats were treated as cows and pigs are? Would you support that?

 
At 9:49 AM, Blogger Mandy said...

*That should be "conscience", not "conscious"*

 
At 12:27 PM, Blogger Wardo said...

Hi Mandy. Great, another idiot to destroy. Seriously, the way you set yourselves up for me, it's like T-ball practise. You are all total idiots, every one of you. Don't even attempt to intellectualize on a topic you don't understand, you just look more and more stupid:


"I *do* understand the argument. Currently there is no market for dog meat, hence there is no (little?) production here in North America. There aren't farmers out there breeding massive numbers of dogs in an attempt to get prices down so people will buy it. Why? Because people are opposed to eating dog meat."

No - you don't get it. Another booby prize for you, Mandy. Supply and demand rules don't apply to a market that doesn't exist. Of course there is no demand for dog meat - you can't buy it!

But let's say , en masse, a number of farmers began to produce dog meat, for a fraction of the cost of beef. Dog steaks, chops, roasts. What does it taste like? Who knows? But you bet your flabby, left-wing ass there'd be a demand for it if it was cheap enough. Hell, even if it wasn't - the immigrant Chinese population would line up to get it. They do in their home country. And if it cost, oh, $2 for a roast the same size as a $15 beef one, you'd find the trailer trash lining up for it too. "Damn, this tastes good!"

"Over the last ten years that I've been vegetarian, I've noticed that a lot more people are eating less meat and/or becoming vegetarian."

Really, that's interesting. I bought a green car, and I noticed that a lot of people are buying green cars, too! I mean, I notice them all the time, just like mine! I think I've started something here!

Strike two, Mandy. Back up your argument with a fact, or else your statement is worthless. You haven't stated anything that proves being a weakling vegetarian is increasing in popularity. Not saying there isn't, but once again, you brought a knife to a gunfight.

"...without dropping like flies from heart attacks."

Show me decisively, where a vegetarian diet, combined with IDENTICAL LIFESTYLE FACTORS (similar rates of exercise, smoking, caloric intake of all kinds - protein, carbs, fats - education, drug/alcohol use) significantly reduces heart attack risk. Then I might believe you. Again - I rock, you suck.

"But I'm always amused at just how hostile and defensive people get around vegetarians. They claim all the reasons why you shouldn't be vegetarian, why you need meat, etc etc etc. It's obviously just an attempt at justifying their own actions."

Wrong again. It's because opinionated, holier-than-thou jackasses and cunts like yourselves are a drag to be around.

When you think of me, I hope you smile. With your meat-eating incisors shining in the light of your fancy-pants computer your dad probably bought you.

"vegetarians are also very vocal about their diets. It's because we see a horrible wrong being done and we can't in good conscious sit back and let it continue."

Nobody cares what you think is right or wrong. I can see you are egocentric enough to believe your personal set of moral rules are the shit - sorry to let you down, but you aren't the warm centre of the world that everything revolves around. Wait - I'm not sorry. Once again, I throw my own feces at you.

"It's acceptable to abuse farm animals but not pets. Why?"

It isn't acceptable to abuse farm animals. If you think it's happening, once again, your hysterical rantings are supported by NOTHING. On the other hand, animals genetically engineered for our dinner plates were grown to be killed. They never existed in the wild; and they wander freely in the fields until that day arrives. It doesn't pay to abuse your stock in any way - stress reduces the size of the beast. There's no money in it, you see.

"Would you be ok if dogs or cats were treated as cows and pigs are? Would you support that?"

Again, cows and pigs are treated fine. I'm sure you're thinking of some sensational expose you saw on 20/20 that made you all hot and bothered; do you believe everything you see and read? My entire family are farmers, and to a man, they treat their animals with the respect they deserve. Then, they are executed.

Thanks for playing, Mandy. You can go back to the Women's Network now.

-Ace

 
At 2:27 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

It's funny how minorities think they are growing in numbers, but in reality the world is getting smaller with the help of the Internet, bringing these freaks together. So you go ahead and sit at your computers on a Friday night, praising yourselves and declare the world should revolve around your way of thinking. All the power to yas! All the more room out here in reality for the rest of us who actually lead interesting lives.

 
At 3:00 PM, Blogger Mateo said...

So...Ace, can I call you Ace?

"Supply and demand rules don't apply to a market that doesn't exist."

Are you trying to say that markets don't undergo change? I'm sure you like to keep your economic models in a nice logical bubble where they can be free from the uncertainties of the real world, but things change. Kind of a fact of life, wouldn't you say?

"My entire family are farmers, and to a man, they treat their animals with the respect they deserve."

I'm sure you are right. I happen to eat meat and dairy occasionally. I have no problem with farmers who are able to treat their animals with respect. However, the reality is that there are a lot of factory farms producing poor quality meat as a result of short sighted farming practices.

"...holier-than-thou jackasses and cunts like yourselves are a drag to be around."

The feeling is mutual, little boy.

 
At 5:01 PM, Blogger Gazelda said...

Hi Preston,
I got into a car accident last week. I hit a smart car. It's totalled. My bike is fine though, so don't worry.

 
At 6:40 PM, Blogger Wardo said...

"Are you trying to say that markets don't undergo change? I'm sure you like to keep your economic models in a nice logical bubble where they can be free from the uncertainties of the real world, but things change. Kind of a fact of life, wouldn't you say?"

What a pointless paragraph. I was countering the idea of supply and demand in a non-existent market. And I went on to speculate on the possibility of a dog-meat market. That's a fuck of a lot of change, wouldn't you say?

"I'm sure you are right. I happen to eat meat and dairy occasionally. I have no problem with farmers who are able to treat their animals with respect. However, the reality is that there are a lot of factory farms producing poor quality meat as a result of short sighted farming practices."

Like everyone else - prove it. I'm getting tired of saying it. Vegetarians are all full of jack and shit. And Jack just left town.

"The feeling is mutual, little boy."

I know you're the little boy. You had a friendly uncle, I'm sure...one who always wanted you on his lap. And you can't get inimate now, as an adult. Isn't that true?

-Ace

 
At 11:40 AM, Blogger Mandy said...

Argus,

Once someone's argument becomes so weak that they have to resort to name calling, I usually call the debate quits. The need to name-call is an excellent indicator of your immaturity.

I'll respond to the points you've brought up here, because you've brought up a lot of misconceptions. But I refuse to play your game any more if you can't act like an adult.

"Strike two, Mandy. Back up your argument with a fact, or else your statement is worthless. You haven't stated anything that proves being a weakling vegetarian is increasing in popularity. Not saying there isn't, but once again, you brought a knife to a gunfight."

Here ya go,

"In the past ten years, the number of vegetarians has doubled ..."

From: http://www.bbc.co.uk/health/awareness_campaigns/may_vegetarian.shtml

"Show me decisively, where a vegetarian diet, combined with IDENTICAL LIFESTYLE FACTORS (similar rates of exercise, smoking, caloric intake of all kinds - protein, carbs, fats - education, drug/alcohol use) significantly reduces heart attack risk. Then I might believe you. Again - I rock, you suck."

Check out the book called "The China Study".

Also check out:
http://www.americanheart.org/presenter.jhtml?identifier=532

Now you show me decisively how mass consumption of the saturated fats found in meat and dairy has no negative impact on human health.

"When you think of me, I hope you smile. With your meat-eating incisors shining in the light of your fancy-pants computer your dad probably bought you."

Where do you come up with this stuff? Check out the canines on gorillas. Gorillas are mostly vegetarian.

On that same point, take your super sharp, meat shearing canines to a freshly killed cow carcass and try to chew through it to get to the meat, and let's see how far you get.

"Wait - I'm not sorry. Once again, I throw my own feces at you."

Just like a monkey. Nice.

On the other hand, I would rather have feces thrown at me than eat the feces that's on meat.

"It isn't acceptable to abuse farm animals. If you think it's happening, once again, your hysterical rantings are supported by NOTHING."

If you think the cows you eat live in happy fields, you're naive and have been fooled by the bull these industries feed you.

"On the other hand, animals genetically engineered for our dinner plates were grown to be killed. They never existed in the wild; and they wander freely in the fields until that day arrives."

So are you saying it would be ok to clone humans simply for the use of harvesting their organs? After all, they were grown for that purpose.

"It doesn't pay to abuse your stock in any way - stress reduces the size of the beast. There's no money in it, you see."

That's a common misconception. I'm sorry you fell for it.

Animals are a commodity, a product. There's no money in taking the time and effort in ensuring that they are all happy and healthy.

"Again, cows and pigs are treated fine."

Keep telling yourself that, if that's what you have to believe to justify your diet.

"My entire family are farmers, and to a man, they treat their animals with the respect they deserve. Then, they are executed."

So I'm sure you're aware that family farms are closing down every day due to the pressure of factory farms? It's simple economics. I'm sure you know that already though.

A simple google search of "factory farms" will show you what's really going on. There's no shortage of graphic videos and pictures.

The farming practices that are going on today are completely unsustainable. They consume massive amounts of grain and water, and cause air and water pollution. It's only a matter of time before the whole system breaks down.

And if you can't have a reasonable debate without resorting to childish name calling, please don't bother to respond.

 
At 1:41 PM, Blogger Mateo said...

Next time I take a girl to bed, I'm going to dedicate that session of sensual fucking to all the time you waste picking fights with people on the internet.

 
At 1:45 PM, Blogger Mateo said...

Oh, and Ace, feel free to call me a liar or whatever else you want. I am done paying attention to your head in the ass bullshit. And I take back that whole "dedication" thing. You are not at all worth the effort.

 
At 3:28 PM, Blogger Wardo said...

Mandy,

Congratulations for posting a few links in an attempt to support yourself. If you wanted to be taken seriously, you should have done that in the first place. Unfortunately, telling me to go read a book on being a vegan doesn't support your argument - and the other link doesn't work. So you haven't proven a thing.

I've read the summaries of more than a few long-term studies comparing indentical lifestyle factors for vegetarian diets and non; the results are inconclusive. There is no decisive link between eating vegetables exclusively and being healthy. The current rates of health bandied about by vegetarians fail to note they include a high percentage of people who are generally healthy to start with. And the meat-eating groups usually include the worst examples of human health known to man.

As for your treatment of animals argument, again, you've offered nothing but naive hysteria to support your arguments. You're wrong - end of story. Go visit a meat-producing farm. Read something less biased on the topic than something issued by PETA. You have no idea what you're talking about.

Regarding your pontificating of morals, "oh, you're saying that to justify your decision, oh, is it okay to harvest organs, blah blah" once again, you are presuming that your personal moral code is right, and I am wrong. You are a fool. I'll believe what I like, and the majority of the population shares my opinion.

Hey, M. Canstin, if I'm not "worth it", then how come you posted twice in response to me? That's right, because you are so insecure you just HAD to get the last word. Nice try, chump.

-Ace

 
At 4:29 PM, Blogger Mandy said...

Ace,

You're here for one of two resons:

1)To take cheap shots at people who disagree with you, or;

2)Because you're genuinely interested in the topic.

If it's 1), I'm not wasting my time on you any more.

If it's 2), feel free to email me at cranberry82 at hotmail.com and I will provide you with the links, websites, references, etc that support my view. That's provided that you can make a reasonable argument of your own, with references and without resorting to name calling - two things that to date you seem incapable of doing (btw, it's interesting how you insist that I give references yet offer none of your own).

I'm done hijacking someone's blog comments for the sake of a debate.

 
At 6:01 PM, Blogger Wardo said...

Mandy,

Typical. You ignore all my points, and give up. Cheap shots? Hardly. You just can't handle an aggressive debate. So you throw your hands and say I'm acting childish, when you still haven't presented a shred of evidence supporting your position. Fine, go. You can take the home game with you on your way out.

The reason I am addressing you at all is because you were stupid enough to suggest you knew what you were talking about when it came to supply and demand theory. Ever since your original post that was directed at me, you've done nothing but prove yourself to be increasingly stupid, while conveniently avoiding responding to any points I listed that exposed your ignorance.

Why I haven't posted any links? I have to keep reminding myself - you ARE that naive. You where the one that unleashed your ridiculous arguments without any backup. The onus is on YOU to prove whatever valueless points you have. The burden of proof is yours, not mine. Prove your case to me, and if you can't, fuck off back to Hippie Land.

I have no interest in contacting you via email. I have enough women who want to date me, thanks.

-Ace

 
At 7:05 PM, Blogger gina said...

dang preston. quite a controversial blog you got going on over here. it kind of makes me laugh, how upset all of these people are getting. you are what you are, and if they dont like it , they should say buh bye!!

 
At 8:07 PM, Blogger Meatlover Skillet said...

In my mind, organic beef is the way to go. Of course, you have to explain to producers what the meaning of ORGANIC means. Please see my posting "What's The Beef With Beef?" for my 2 cents.

 
At 6:53 PM, Blogger Mindscrew said...

Hey that sounds good organic meat, that is the funniest thing I had ever herd, oops, I meant heard. Seriously, now, I think this dude should give the car away to some poor homeless man, that is if he really wants to change the world, cause if he sold it for the money, he would be going against everthing he stood for. P.S. your old man rocks!!

 

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